Welcome to the Dr. Friday Show from April 26, 2025! While she might not have a medical degree, Dr. Friday is here to diagnose and treat your financial and tax ailments. In this episode, Dr. Friday dives into the significant Tennessee-wide disaster tax relief extension announced by the IRS, clarifying who qualifies and how it differs from state relief. She also tackles common issues like dealing with multi-year tax debt, the implications of tax problems on marriage and home buying, understanding the difference between a hobby and a business, and takes listener calls on Social Security income rules and self-employment tax. Get ready for practical advice on navigating IRS complexities and planning for the future.
Topics Covered:
- Federal Disaster Tax Relief for Tennessee:
- All Tennessee counties qualify for IRS disaster tax relief due to various events (tornadoes, storms, flooding) over the past year.
- Federal filing and payment deadlines (including quarterly estimates and payroll taxes) originally due around April 15th are extended to November 3, 2025.
- This extension applies universally within TN, regardless of direct impact from the disasters.
- Unlike normal extensions, the payment deadline is also extended without penalty for federal taxes.
- This extension also applies to 2024 IRA contributions (usually due April 15th). SEP contributions are also extended.
- State Tax Relief Distinction:
- Tennessee state tax deadlines (Franchise & Excise, business tax, sales tax) are not automatically extended for everyone.
- State relief is granted on a case-by-case basis only for those directly affected by the disasters.
- Addressing IRS Tax Debt:
- Importance of resolving past-due taxes, especially when facing life events like marriage or buying property.
- Filing “Married Filing Separately” might be advisable if a spouse has pre-existing tax debt.
IRS collection actions: liens (especially payroll) and potential wage garnishment (up to 100%). - High cost of ignoring IRS debt due to penalties (failure to file, pay, estimate, understatement – up to 25% each) and interest (mentioned ~12%).
- Offer in Compromise (OIC): Possible but often not “pennies on the dollar,” especially with assets like home equity, multiple cars, or recreational vehicles (campers).
- IRS may expect taxpayers to borrow against or liquidate assets to pay tax debt.
- Hobby vs. Business Income:
- Discussion using Dr. Friday’s beekeeping as an example.
- Hobby expenses are only deductible up to hobby income (no losses allowed).
- A true business requires intent and activity level aimed at profit.
- Social Security & Income:
- Caller question about interest income impacting SSDI/early retirement earnings limits.
- Clarification: Passive income (interest, retirement distributions) counts for taxability of SS benefits but generally not towards the earned income limit that reduces early retirement benefits.
- Proactive step: Requesting federal tax withholding from Social Security benefits (requires filling out Form W-4V, likely in person).
- Potential impact of large income events (like stock sales) on Medicare premiums via IRMA (Income Related Monthly Adjustment Amount).
- Self-Employment and Early Social Security:
- Caller question about structuring a mowing business when one spouse is collecting early Social Security (under Full Retirement Age) and the other is past FRA.
- Advice: Structure business under the spouse past FRA. Pay the spouse under FRA as a 1099 contractor, limiting their earnings to stay below the annual limit.
- Note: The earnings limit is prorated in the first year of collecting benefits.
- Self-Employment Tax Basics:
- Caller question about SE tax calculation for a sole proprietor LLC.
- Clarification: You pay SE tax (Social Security & Medicare) on business profits. Half of the SE tax paid is deductible as an adjustment to income on Form 1040.
- Tax Planning for 2025 and Beyond:
- Uncertainty surrounding the expiration of current tax laws at the end of 2025.
- Potential impact on tax brackets, estate tax, etc.
- Importance of planning (e.g., Roth conversions, asset sales) considering potential future tax rate changes.
- Inheritance and Donations:
- Importance of proper valuation and documentation for inherited assets, especially when donating non-cash items.
- Large non-cash donations (>$5,000) generally require a qualified appraisal for tax deductions.
Obtaining appraisals for inherited real estate is crucial for establishing basis.
- General Tax Advice & Services:
- Importance of filing estimates correctly (based on prior year, four equal payments) to avoid penalties.
- Recommendation to use full-service payroll providers (Gusto, ADP, Intuit) to avoid payroll tax issues, which can carry personal liability.
- Offer of services for tax preparation, back taxes, IRS representation, bookkeeping, and business setup.
Episode FAQ:
General Tax Relief & Filing
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Q: What is the major federal tax relief mentioned for Tennessee residents?
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A: Due to various disasters (tornadoes, storms, flooding), the IRS granted disaster tax relief to all counties in Tennessee. This extends the deadline for filing various 2024 federal tax returns and making tax payments (including income tax, estimated tax, and payroll tax) originally due between April 14, 2025, and November 3, 2025, to November 3, 2025.
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Q: Do I need to have been personally affected by a disaster to qualify for this federal extension?
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A: No, the federal relief applies to everyone residing in Tennessee, regardless of whether they were directly impacted by the storms or floods.
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Q: Does this federal extension also apply to Tennessee state taxes (like Franchise & Excise, business license, sales tax)?
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A: No, the State of Tennessee is handling relief on a case-by-case basis. You must have been directly affected by the disaster and contact the TN Department of Revenue to request relief for state tax obligations. If you weren’t affected, state deadlines remain unchanged.
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Q: Can I delay paying the federal taxes I owe until November 3, 2025, without penalty?
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A: Yes, for this specific disaster relief situation, the extension to November 3, 2025, applies to both filing and payment for qualifying federal taxes, without the usual late payment penalties accruing before that date.
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Q: Did this extension also affect the deadline for 2024 IRA contributions?
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A: Yes, uniquely, this federal extension pushed the deadline to make 2024 contributions to Traditional and Roth IRAs to November 3, 2025. (SEP IRA contributions are typically extended with filing extensions anyway).
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Dealing with IRS Issues
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Q: What are common reasons people seek help with past-due taxes?
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A: Dr. Friday mentioned seeing clients needing to resolve multiple years of unfiled taxes, often prompted by life events like getting married, buying a house, or discovering a spouse’s existing tax issues.
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Q: What happens if I ignore IRS tax debt?
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A: Ignoring IRS debt is risky. The IRS can charge significant penalties (for failure to file, failure to pay, failure to make estimated payments, understatement of income – each potentially up to 25%) plus high interest (currently around 12%). They can easily place liens on paychecks and potentially on assets like homes (though taking a primary residence is less common).
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Q: Can the IRS take my house if I owe taxes?
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A: While they can put a lien on property, the IRS usually doesn’t seize a primary residence, especially if not all owners on the deed owe taxes. However, they view equity in a home as funds potentially available to pay the tax debt, especially if you paid the mortgage instead of the IRS.
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Q: How does owning assets affect settling tax debt with the IRS?
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A: Having significant assets (like home equity, large 401ks, valuable vehicles beyond basic needs, recreational vehicles like campers) makes it harder to get a “pennies on the dollar” settlement. The IRS expects you to use available equity or assets to pay the debt. Their definition of what you can “afford” may differ significantly from yours.
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Q: What if I sell an asset to family to avoid the IRS?
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A: This is generally a bad idea. You must prove the sale was for fair market value, and the family member had the legitimate means to purchase it. Otherwise, the IRS can view it as attempting to hide assets, leading to potentially worse legal problems.
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Social Security & Income
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Q: Does passive income like CD interest count against the Social Security earnings limit if I retire early?
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A: No. The Social Security earnings limit for those receiving benefits before full retirement age applies only to earned income (from working, like wages or self-employment). Passive income like interest, dividends, or retirement distributions does not count towards this limit.
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Q: Can passive income like interest make my Social Security benefits taxable?
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A: Yes. While passive income doesn’t affect the earnings limit, it does contribute to your overall income calculation (provisional income) which determines if, and how much of, your Social Security benefits are subject to federal income tax.
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Q: Can I have federal income tax withheld from my Social Security check?
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A: Yes. You can request this by filling out a specific form (likely Form W-4V). According to a caller, this may require making an appointment and visiting a local Social Security office to sign the form.
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Q: My spouse and I own a business. I’m starting Social Security before my full retirement age, but my spouse is past theirs. How can we handle the income?
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A: Dr. Friday suggested structuring the business so it’s solely owned by the spouse who is past full retirement age (and thus has no earnings limit). That spouse can then pay the early-retiring spouse as a contractor (1099) or employee, carefully managing the payments to keep their earned income below the annual Social Security earnings limit.
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Q: Is the Social Security earnings limit prorated in the first year I start receiving benefits?
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A: Yes, Dr. Friday indicated the earnings limit is prorated for the portion of the year after you begin receiving benefits. You should confirm the exact calculation with the Social Security Administration.
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Business & Self-Employment
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Q: What’s the tax difference between a hobby and a business?
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A: With a hobby, you can only deduct expenses up to the amount of income generated by the hobby; you cannot claim a loss. With a business, you can deduct all ordinary and necessary expenses, potentially resulting in a loss that can offset other income (subject to various rules).
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Q: Is self-employment tax (Social Security & Medicare for self-employed) deductible?
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A: Yes, one-half of the self-employment tax you pay is deductible. However, it’s an “above-the-line” deduction on the front of your Form 1040 (an adjustment to income), not a business expense deducted directly against your business profit on Schedule C.
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Inheritance & Donations
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Q: I inherited a lot of personal items (like furniture, tools, etc.) and want to donate them. Do I need an appraisal for a tax deduction?
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A: Yes, if the value of the donated items is significant. Tax law requires a qualified appraisal for non-cash donations exceeding certain thresholds (e.g., over $5,000 total, or over $500 for certain “like-kind” items). Simply estimating thrift store value yourself is likely insufficient for large donations and could be disallowed by the IRS.
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Q: Do I need an appraisal for an inherited house?
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A: It’s highly recommended. An appraisal at the time of inheritance establishes your “basis” (usually the fair market value at the date of death). This is crucial for calculating capital gains or losses if you later sell the property.
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Payroll Taxes
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Q: Why does Dr. Friday recommend using a full-service payroll provider?
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A: Handling payroll taxes correctly (withholding, depositing, filing quarterly reports) is critical and complex. Failure to pay payroll taxes can lead to severe consequences, including the Trust Fund Recovery Penalty, where the IRS can hold business owners or responsible individuals personally liable for the unpaid taxes. Full-service providers (like ADP, Gusto, Intuit Payroll) handle these obligations automatically, reducing the risk of costly errors.
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Transcript:
[00:00] Announcer: Show Introduction
Announcer
No, no, no, she’s not a medical doctor, but she can sure cure your tax problems or your financial woes. She’s the how-to girl. It’s the Dr. Friday Show. If you have a question for Dr. Friday, call her now, 737-WWTN. That’s 737-9986. So here’s your host, financial counselor and tax consultant, Dr. Friday.
[00:27] Dr. Friday: Opening Remarks and Tennessee Disaster Tax Relief (Federal)
Dr. Friday
G’day, I’m Dr. Friday and the doctor is in the house. We are here in studio today. So if you want to join the show, you can at 615-737-9986, 615-737-9986. Taking your calls. Probably the biggest news that we have right now going on in our world is the fact that all of Tennessee qualified for a disaster tax relief that happened on the 14th of November. And they extended it all the way out to November 3rd, 2025. It was a pretty, I’m sorry, April 14th, they happened and it extends out to November 3rd. And so anybody that actually usually makes quarterlies, it even qualifies for payroll taxes or filing your taxes. They’ve extended the time we had to pay those. So in theory, I have a large number of clients that had chose to hold off filing taxes. So that way they could make sure that they can make money on the money. Everybody qualifies. You did not have to be a tornado victim or any of that kind of situation.
[01:46] Dr. Friday: State vs. Federal Relief and Reasons for Extension
Dr. Friday
So again, one of those situations where it came pretty late. It wasn’t something that a lot of us had. Now, this does not extend towards the state. Tennessee, if you have franchise excise, if you have business license, if you have sales tax, they are doing it case by case. So if you truly are a victim of these different situations that have happened in the last year, then yes, you need to let Tennessee Department of Revenue know, and then they will work with you on the filing and delaying and all of that. But if you were not affected, but the federal law is allowing everybody, the state is saying, no, you must have filed on time or we’re charging penalties due to that. So again, if you’ve got questions on this, it’s kind of a big deal because normally they don’t do a statewide in some of these situations. And this has been a quite a big extension. And they’re doing it because we’ve actually had, you know, tornadoes. We’ve had straight line storms. We’ve had flooding in many parts of our state. And so they decided to do all counties to cover that situation. I mean, not a mile from my home did people get affected by the floods. It just, I was fortunate enough not to be affected. So all the counties have some issues that they’re trying to help and protect.
[03:09] Dr. Friday: Implications and Opportunities of the Federal Extension
Dr. Friday
And it’s giving everyone a window. So this is the year you think about it. This is the year you really want to consider getting everything done right. Maybe making those payments. Even if you know, a lot of times I have people that will file extensions knowing that they owe money. And their idea is, well, I’ll just extend it. Now keep in mind, normally extensions do not extend the money due. If you owe money, if you don’t have it paid on or before April 15th, then the penalties and stuff keep going even if you have a legitimate extension. That is not the case this time. But maybe this will be the year that you really could sit down and say, hey, you know what? I could pay this and get my estimates together and try to get everything paid in by November 3rd. So that way you don’t get hit with all those additional penalties that normally you would have a lot of penalties if you waited until, well, for one, normally our extensions only go to October 15th. So November 3rd is past our normal extension period.
[04:08] Dr. Friday: Tax Season Observations and Common Issues
Dr. Friday
So all great news. Other than that, obviously tax season was a crazy year this year. It seemed like there was just a lot of great people coming in our office. But we seem to be dealing with a lot of people that have multiple year situations. I think maybe finally people are like, it’s time to get my tax situation in line. Maybe you’re getting married. I’ve got two people that want to get married, but they don’t really want to go into the marriage before they have the tax issue taken care of. Or you have married somebody and now you find out that that individual has tax issues. So do you really want to be filing with that person? Because you could theoretically lose your refund. Now there are ways of preserving your share of the refund, but it may be smarter to file married filing separately than tying yourself to someone that does have existing tax issues.
[05:00] Dr. Friday: Tax Issues Impacting Life Events (Home Buying, Liens)
Dr. Friday
You might want to also consider if you’re thinking about buying a house together and that person has an existing tax issue. Is it really a smart idea to have a piece of real estate the IRS can put a lien against? Now, I keep telling people that they can’t take your house per se, especially if it’s your primary residence. It’s not something that the IRS usually does. But what they can do is take and put a lien. But if it’s not, if both people that has a name on that property do not have tax issues, then they have a difficult time putting a lien against the property. But they will find ways putting a lien against your payroll. That’s easy. You go right to your employer and say, hey, put a lien against this person. We want to, you know, we want to take a portion or I’ve had them take the entire paycheck. Because if you don’t have a payment plan set up, they’ll set up one for you, which is basically taking 100% of your paycheck.
[05:50] Dr. Friday: Consequences of Ignoring IRS Debt
Dr. Friday
So ignoring or just not doing anything is not really the best plan. It may have worked for you so far. I have people that say, hey, I haven’t done anything with the IRS for 20 years. And I’ve never had a problem with them. And that’s great. I’m glad that works for you. I can’t say it works for a lot of us. If I have a bill from the IRS because they’ve charged an additional penalty, I’m either going to respond to that letter with a response that, you know, either there’s a waiver or there wasn’t a penalty, or I’m going to pay that bill because I do not want the IRS as my loan officer. It’s never pretty. There are penalties. Right now, I think the interest is like 12%. Penalties are up to 25%. And they can do that on two or three different things. Failure to pay on time, failure to make proper estimates, understatement of income. All of these have penalties that you can be assessed. And those penalties are each up to 25%. So next thing you know, you can have 100% of whatever you owe the IRS. You know, so you might have owed five, but by the time they’re done, you owe 10. That’s a lot of money to have to eat.
[06:56] Dr. Friday: Risks of Inaction and Life Impacts
Dr. Friday
So you do want to make sure you’re not just ignoring. I get it. You know, if they’re not bothering you, you think, well, let sleeping dogs lie. I’ve heard it. And again, it may work for some of you, but some of us, you know, maybe you want to buy a house. Maybe you have kids that want to have FAFSA. Or you want to get married and you don’t want to have this hanging over your head as a potential problem. Number one reason for divorce is finances. So it’s one of those situations where you’re sitting there thinking, do I really want to have to worry about this? Or is it something that we can get resolution on and move forward?
[07:33] Dr. Friday: Resolving IRS Debt with Assets (Home Equity)
Dr. Friday
I mean, sometimes resolution can be fairly straightforward. I’ll be honest with you. You don’t own a house. You don’t have a big 401k. You don’t have a lot of assets. Those are the ones you hear that often make a better deal. If you have a home and the assets has money in it, you have to look at that from the IRS standpoint. You made payments on a mortgage, but chose not to pay them. So they look at that equity as theirs because of the fact that you made those payments. You built up that equity only because you did not pay your IRS bill. And so they’re saying that equity is up to at least what you owe us is ours. So you should take and borrow that and pay that to someone other than us. And that is their two cents. There is some arguments and debates that can be done on that. But mostly you have to look at the picture in a big picture. I know a lot of people I have, they’re like, well, this is all we have. We’ve worked our whole life and all we have is the house and we paid it off. And that’s great. But then you have $45,000 due to Uncle Sam and you’ve got a paid off home. You’re not going to get a good deal from the IRS. You know, I mean, if you’re in your late 60s or early 70s and maybe that’s all you have is your house. And, you know, you’re going to have to do a reverse mortgage or you’re going to have to downside and sell it because that’s you may be able to make a deal showing that that is your only source of retirement. But let’s be honest, most people, that is not the case. And so you’re going to have to figure out a way to either borrow to pay Uncle Sam or make a payment plan to pay Uncle Sam. That’s your choices. And sometimes they don’t really give you a choice. They’re like, you’ve had eight years. You’ve only got a couple more years left. We’re going to put a lien against the house. And then it’s much more difficult to borrow. They will subordinate a loan. If you’re going to do that, they will go in and they’ll subordinate. So that way, the mortgage company will give you a mortgage and then they’ll pay the cash out directly to the IRS to get that lien removed. And, you know, and you’re fine.
[09:36] Dr. Friday: IRS Perspective on Affordability and Assets
Dr. Friday
But just don’t think that because all you have or right now you don’t think you can afford it. But what you consider affording something and what they consider affording something are not the same story. I just want to put that out there. A lot of times people are like, well, all we do is we work all day. We each have a car. Our kids have cars. We have to pay insurance. We have health insurance. We have a home. And, you know, we don’t have anything left over every single month. And the problem is, in some cases, they may look at the value of the cars. They may say that every household for a husband and wife, even though you have children, theoretically, there’s only two cars needed for a household. If the child is over the age of 21 or, you know, they’re not your dependent any longer. That’s one thing. But in most cases, they are dependents. So the IRS could turn around and say the value of this car is what you can afford to pay us. If you sold that car, you could pay us because that’s a third car and it’s not needed in the household. Now, again, there are always two sides to all of these conversations. But I want to make sure you’re thinking if we’re going to be making a true deal. I mean, I know there’s a bunch of people on the radio that says, oh, we can make a deal with the IRS for 10 cents on the dollar. And we’ve done it in our office. But that doesn’t mean that the majority of the people walking in my office are getting that kind of deal, to be quite honest with you. Most of them, it’s a little bit more. Sometimes it’s 50. Sometimes it’s 60%. But, you know, it’s a little bit better than some.
[11:07] Dr. Friday: Lifestyle Choices vs. IRS Debt and Hiding Assets
Dr. Friday
But on that same subject, you have to keep in mind that what you have, a portion of the reason you have it, is because you’ve made choices not to pay the IRS and therefore use that disposable income to either pay or buy something else. And now that other thing, I had a person that has a camper. And they’re like, well, this is the only thing we have. But you have a house and a camper. A camper is considered a second home. They are going to make you sell that camper. And they’re like, well, what if we just sell it to my brother? You sell it within the family. You’re going to have to prove that you paid the fair market value and that you have the ability to do that. Because otherwise, you’re not going to actually get the – they could turn around and basically say that you were trying to hide money from the government. And then that can get into actual worse legal issues if that’s the case.
[12:02] Dr. Friday: Break Transition and Upcoming Tax Law Changes
Dr. Friday
All right. We’re getting ready to take our first break. If you want to join the show, you can. 615-737-9986. 615-737-9986 is the number here in the studio. Maybe you’ve inherited or maybe you’ve got some questions for 2025. We all know that the current tax law will expire at the end of this year. But right now, we don’t really know what. It has not been renewed. That’s all we know. So we’ll be right back with the Dr. Friday Show. All righty.
[12:36] Dr. Friday: Return from Break, Personal Anecdote (Beekeeping)
Dr. Friday
We are back here live in studio on this beautiful Saturday. A little overcast actually, but it’s not raining, so I’ll take it. I was out there playing with my beehives. Many of you guys know I’ve got bees now, so I’m kind of excited about it. Just getting the supers put on. So a little late possibly to getting a full run of honey, but this is our first year. So we’ll figure it out as we go. Hopefully any of you guys are out there that know about bees. I can always use any help.
[13:03] Dr. Friday: Taxes and Beekeeping – Business vs. Hobby
Dr. Friday
So back to taxes, which is a good tax deduction because bees, if I can produce honey, then I’ll have a little business on the side and be able to enjoy my business and make some money, hopefully, on the side. But if you’re into, just keep in mind there’s a difference between a business and a hobby. I will tell you, I honestly consider bees a hobby for me. So that means that I basically will not show, I cannot show a loss. I can only write off expenses up to the cost of whatever it costs for me to sell something. And who knows if they’ll ever sell anything. But there is a big discussion and a big line in which people have, when it talks the difference between a hobby and a business. We’ve got a gentleman that lives down the block from us, his name’s Craig, and he’s got probably 30 hives. He’s in business. And he works a lot with dealing with the military. He does a lot with helping people get started. He’s an awesome guy. But again, there is a difference in my world. It would really not be a true business. It’d definitely be a hobby, a list at this point. Way too busy doing what I do for a living to make sure that works for you or whatever.
[14:20] Dr. Friday: Call-in Information and Introducing Caller Mike
Dr. Friday
So if there’s any direct questions, you can join the show at 615-737-9986. 615-737-9986. So we got Mike in Lawrenceburg. Mike, what’s happening, my friend?
[14:38] Caller: Question on CD Interest, Loans, and SSDI Income Limits
Caller
Well, I’ve got a little problem, but it’s no big deal. But if you put all your money into a CD and you borrow against the CD, all the interest, does that loan still count toward income?
[14:51] Dr. Friday: Clarifying Taxable Income vs. SSDI Earnings Limit
Dr. Friday
Yes. So as far as I know, the way that would work is you’ve got, let’s just, I’m going to throw a number. Let’s say you’ve got 100 grand in a CD and they’re paying you four grand that year in interest, just throwing numbers out. And then you’ve taken a loan against that CD. You’re going to have to pay tax on the three or four grand they gave you in interest. And then potentially you could write off the interest against that loan. It would depend on what the loan was for. Was it for your primary home? Was it for a business? Or if it was for something personal, like a tractor, unless you’re not in business, then it would not be tax deductible.
Caller
Right now I’ve got, I’ve grown SSDI. And the interest on everything I’ve together puts me over my income. And I was just trying to get, throw a curve ball on it and see if there’s another way around it.
Dr. Friday
Well, SSI. So you’re on early social security.
Caller
Yes, ma’am. I’m a hundred percent.
Dr. Friday
Okay. Well, interest is not considered earnings. Is it?
Caller
It counts toward income.
Dr. Friday
Does it? I mean, it counts towards income. But I guess I was thinking that my definition, when I spoke to someone over at social security, because I had a guy that he had, he had taken some money out of his IRA and they said that did not affect the early social security. It’s only earnings. Interest is passive. You don’t do anything. You put money in a bank and it does its job. You have no influence on how it’s going to do what it does. So as far as I know, and you can double check this unless somebody’s listening and that would be great if you know the answer. But my understanding for early social security, that 20,000 or whatever that you have to earn, that’s only through earnings, either be self-employed or W-2. It’s not considered other income or investments. So I think you’d be okay.
[16:46] Caller: Clarification – Issue is Taxability of Social Security Benefits
Caller
Right now, it brings in between my other retirement income, because I’ve got a military retirement too that’s taxable, but it still puts me under by 20,000. But when you add in the interest that on my, what I’ve got now, I did it. I didn’t this year. I had to put it in this year because this thing got over, but it, I did it cause it was taxable. That’s what it asked.
Dr. Friday
Right. I mean, you have to, I mean, for the income tax purposes, I totally agree with you. It is taxable income. But for the SSI calculation for early social security, your retirement and the interest would not come into play. They would not penalize you for, for having money over the dollar amount. Now it may make your social security taxable, you know, on your personal social security. That may be what you’re talking about.
Caller
Yes. That may be the case because both of them. I’ve already called, I called social security and I wouldn’t go ahead and have them tax my income.
Dr. Friday
Ah.
Caller
Me having to pay that extra money.
Dr. Friday
Yeah. That was smart. That was smart. I think.
Caller
Right now it’s not taxable income. And now. Right. With all my money and income, it’s put me over. So this year I had to call them to get them to go ahead and tax it. That way I ain’t got to worry about it no more. We’re still in hope that Donald Trump will pull it off and not, and change that law where social security, no matter how much money you make, is not taxable.
[18:13] Dr. Friday: Process for Withholding Tax from Social Security
Dr. Friday
It’s, it should not be taxable in my opinion, but you’re right. At this current tax code, you are a hundred percent correct. And what you did, I try to tell people all the time, how hard was it to get them to start taking tax out of your social security? Was it difficult?
Caller
No. Phone call. Well, that’s all it was.
Dr. Friday
Okay. Cause I, I’ve had a number of people and I’m like, you need to start having social security withholding taxes. And they’re like, well, I won’t be able to make time to go down there. They make me come to the office so it can be done over the phone.
Caller
Yeah. No, no. All right. I lied. I called them over the phone. They said, okay, you got to come to the office and sign a phone. Cause you got to fill out a W2.
Dr. Friday
Okay. Okay.
Caller
Just like you would a job or anything else. That’s all it is. They want you to do your W2. And I filed married and zero or a single married and single with a hire. And that way I’m guaranteed a little money back every year or at least even.
Dr. Friday
Yeah. Well, that was smart, but you do actually have to go in and complete that W4 form or whatever. And then they will start taking out with all these.
Caller
You got to fill out just for taxes. You got to sign something.
Dr. Friday
Yeah. Well, that makes sense.
Caller
I’ve got an office here in Lawrenceburg. I mean, I got, I called them. I went in that same week. And I signed it left. I was in and out in less than 30 minutes.
Dr. Friday
Okay. Good. So it’s not overly complicated for some people, but they would have to make some time to walk in an office, local office.
Caller
You just have to call, make an appointment. You go to the local office, you’re in and out. Cause it’s appointment only. Their doors are locked 90% of the time.
Dr. Friday
Ah, gotcha. See, I didn’t know that. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate you letting us know that.
Caller
All right. Thank you. Bye.
Dr. Friday
Thanks, sir. Bye. All right.
[19:47] Dr. Friday: Importance of Planning for Social Security Taxability and IRMAA
Dr. Friday
Uh, because yes, I think a number of people, unfortunately do not, uh, think about social security being taxable because in some cases, like Mike’s case earlier, he’s like, well, it wasn’t taxable until this year. I get it. Every time things change, um, it becomes, uh, more and more apt to be taxed. Um, and then you have to also worry about as if you, it, in Mike’s case, this is not likely a problem, but in the big picture, it, let’s say you sell a piece of money. You sell a bunch of stock, um, and you’re trying to pay off a mortgage or do something. I’ve had people do this and then they turn around and guess what? You end up making your Irma taxable or increase, increase your Irma. I should say. And Irma is what they use to do your Medicare. It’s a means testing for Medicare. So all I’m saying is in one of those situations, you need to, to, to be, Mike was doing the right thing. You need to be a little proactive. Um, if you think something’s changing, like in his case, uh, you know, if he’s got interest income, that’s higher now than it was in the past or whatever, and added to all of his additional other income, he may end up with a situation where he needs to consider doing what he did. And, you know, a lot of people like, well, social security shouldn’t be taxed. I hear it. But right now under the current tax law, it could be taxed. So you either going to have to have the money come out of your bank account because you owe money or you have it come out every social security check. Totally up to you. I suggest, um, I mean, if, if, if the amount of money you owe is two, three, $400 at the end of the year, I’m happy with that. It’s a free loan from the government, but you know, you really have to be careful because if you owe five, six or seven, there could be a penalty and no one wants to pay extra money on top of what we already have. Right. It just doesn’t make sense.
[21:34] Dr. Friday: Estimated Tax Payments – Rules and Penalties
Dr. Friday
So, um, just be careful when you’re calculating and now’s a good time. Look at last year’s taxes. Did you owe money last year? If you did maybe consider changing something now. So that way at the end of this next year, you will not owe, or it’s very little amount. Again, I don’t care if it’s a couple hundred dollars, but if it’s a couple thousand dollars, that means you gave more money to the government because there was most likely a penalty that was assessed with it. And that’s what we really want to avoid. We don’t want to pay penalties. We don’t want to give the government a dollar more than we need to. And they don’t really, I mean, they would much prefer us all paying and keep in mind, if you are a self-employed individual and you are required to make four equal payments based on the prior year, every year I have people that’s like, well, I made some payments, but they weren’t equal and they weren’t four. Um, sometimes people make two or three payments and then they don’t make the last one because they don’t think they owe, but then they ended up owing or something like that. Or they make it based on the income they’re earning currently this year. That’s not the way estimated tax payments are done. Um, you have to base it on the prior year. So the prior year says, Hey, you owed $5,000. You need to make, you know, four equal payments. That’s going to make that balance out. If you don’t, there is a penalty for not making proper estimated penalties payments, excuse me. And that will be up to 25%. Uh, so 5% per month for the next, uh, you know, each time. And of course every quarter it adds up. And so, you know, it adds up pretty quickly.
[23:08] Dr. Friday: Reminder on Federal vs. State Extension Rules
Dr. Friday
And, you know, the whole idea is holding onto your money. I totally hear that. I don’t, I mean, you know, right now, many people, like I said before, this is the first year, but many of us are holding off. I’m making our quarterlies holding it off. I’m paying the taxes because we know that we can pay them, but if there’s no penalty, then why not delay it? Uh, but if for some reason you’re delaying it because of the state, don’t do that. Tennessee is not allowing us to delay our F and E, our business tax, our sales tax, any other tax due to the state of Tennessee. Um, unless you are truly affected by the storms or the disaster, then of course you will qualify. It’s only the individuals that were not directly affected. That’s going to be a problem.
[23:50] Dr. Friday: Break Transition and Contact Information
Dr. Friday
All right. We’re going to take a quick break here. Again, the number here in the studio is 615-737-9986, 615-737-9986. Here is a number here in the studio. Um, and you can also, um, just email Friday at drfriday.com. If you don’t want to come live, either way, we’ll get your questions on here and we’ll be right back with the Dr. Friday show.
[24:16] Dr. Friday: Return from Break, Finishing 2024 Taxes and Looking to 2025
Dr. Friday
We’re back here live in studio. I was so excited. Apparently try to jump in early. Um, we are talking about taxes, talking about 2024, still working on completing a lot of those. Also with 2025 guys, we’re almost in the first month, a day of may we’ve already finished the first quarter. Remember if you’re a payroll person or anything like that, um, we have quarterly reports do make sure all those are done by the end of the month. Other than that, we’re moving nicely ahead into the 2025.
[24:45] Dr. Friday: Uncertainty of Tax Law Extension and Planning Implications
Dr. Friday
No big changes right this second on taxes. We are looking forward to, um, the extension. We’re hoping, um, as far as the, the current tax code being extended past the last day of this year, because that could make some big decisions, um, on, you know, maybe people are doing conversions, um, or maybe you’re thinking about selling some stock to pay off something. Do you do that in the 2025 year before potentially the tax brackets change? Especially if it’s short-term, uh, capital gains, because, uh, we would go from what? 12% to 15, 22 to 25, 24 to 28, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and, uh, the overall brackets would go up about two and a half percent. I think 39 and a half is the top right now. It’s like 27 and a half or 37 and a half. So again, one of those decisions that it’s going to be hard. I’m really hoping that he takes on. And I realized there’s a lot of things happening in government. Um, my world is very small. I’m looking for tax changes only. He’s worried about, uh, budgets and all the other things that go along with it. But it would be great to see something come along with, uh, the new tax code to just give us that idea.
[26:03] Dr. Friday: Potential Tax Law Changes and Planning (Conversions, Estate Tax)
Dr. Friday
Are we going to have some extra time to keep doing some of these conversions at the lower tax rate to keep, uh, cause I know there’s a number of people that are working on, um, you know, either retiring and wanting more money into the Roth. Um, what, what will be, and, you know, also, you know, the death taxes, a lot of those things, uh, the inheritance tax, um, the estate tax, all of those different things will be changing potentially, uh, at the end of 2025. So we’re waiting to see how that’s going to play out and, you know, how much do we need to be pushing it for 2025 versus 2026. If we have another four years or another six years to, to make the difference, that’s all we’re trying to find out is what, what is the difference? What can we do?
[26:50] Dr. Friday: Maximizing 2025 and the IRA/SEP Contribution Extension
Dr. Friday
And, um, you know, so until then we’re really just trying to maximize the 2025 year and with the changes, with the large extension that we got for 2024, there’s just, I mean, keep in mind, they even extended the money you could put into your IRA, right? So before April 15th, you had to pay your money into an IRA or you couldn’t put it in for the past year, right? So April 15th, I could have done for 2024, even though it was April 25th, 2025 with this extension from the federal government, they’ve allowed us to push all the way till November, our dollar amount that we can put into our IRAs as long as, as well as our SEPs. SEPs are always extended with the extension, but IRAs are not. So there’s all these little things you might think about. Well, I didn’t really have the money I didn’t really want to have, but maybe you could maximize, put a little extra into an IRA this year that you normally want because of the fact that you’ve got this nice big window, um, you know, to do it. So, I mean, these are the kinds of things you and your tax person, um, are going to be thinking about. What can we do to maximize the 2024 year to make a difference versus what we might not have done if we only had till April 15th, uh, to do it, or if we only had till October 15th to maximize it. What is our options?
[28:14] Dr. Friday: Caution on Delaying Payments and Using the IRS as a Loan Officer
Dr. Friday
Um, I will say if you’re a person that is pushing or delaying and using that money to maximize, maybe put in a CD or something to grow some money, that’s perfectly fine. But be prepared to pay that money and any estimates that are required for the 2025 year, as well as paying off your 24, never make the IRS your loan officer unless it’s no choice at all, because let’s be honest, their interest rates, their penalties, they have done what they have to do to make sure you are not looking at them as a potential person. That’s going to give them a loan. Right. And I get that again, they, they, uh, I mean, you’ve got billions of people. You can only imagine how many different, um, excuses and how many different ways people file and so many different things.
[29:01] Dr. Friday: Complexity of Tax Law and IRS Appeals Anecdote (Donations)
Dr. Friday
I would not want their job. I would not want to have to try to keep tax law, um, perfectly straight. Um, uh, and dealing with the IRS, like we do, um, we don’t normally go very much in the tax court. Uh, in fact, I’ve never been actually in tax court, but what we can do is actually go to, um, uh, basically a pre-tax where the attorney will call, uh, that represents the IRS and they, that’s called appeals. And, um, and they will, and I only done probably 10 of these cases in the last 15 years. And I was on one the other day and I will say that, uh, this particular lawyer was, um, very good. Uh, not only not making us feel like we didn’t know every answer, but to explain everything. So, um, again, it’s not easy to deal with the IRS, but it’s no different than anything else. And making sure that you have all of your information together. Um, sometimes you think you, you know, that, that you have a really good logical reason behind, but unless there has been some direct tax court, this one we’re dealing with, it’s kind of interesting. The person’s, uh, father died and he was a hoarder. And so they ended up with trailers of things that they gave to Goodwill and Salvation Army. He took pictures. He went on to the Goodwill site and Salvation Army sites and put in the, uh, values if they were considered good or whatever. Um, and, um, the mistake made, he put in what he thought, uh, it would have been the value that he would have paid for it. And of course he didn’t pay for it. It was inherited. So, um, all of that, but that being said, um, it still came into the fact that he, he claimed there was like $80,000 at their, at the thrift store value of all these things. I mean, it was thousands of items. I mean, but, you know, but tax law specifically says you have to have an appraisal if you have more than, uh, you know, $5,000 of like kind, um, or actually, or $500 of like kind items. But basically when it gets that an appraisal should have been made, he didn’t know that he was using it just like he had done all of his own Goodwill stuff for years, thinking that there’s the same process.
[31:15] Dr. Friday: Lessons Learned – Importance of Appraisals and Expert Advice
Dr. Friday
So again, it’s not something that you always run into, but it’s interesting sometimes with some of these cases because it’s not always black and white. I mean, there are some confusing tax laws in with the taxes and the IRS often expects an ordinary individual to be able to know this information. And that’s where it gets, um, you know, the ability to question that authority. How well is it marketed? Do you really know that if you, you have, you know, four dressers and they add up to this dollar amount that I have to have an appraisal. I will tell you, I’ve been working in this case for almost two years. I have now had a number of people that have had inheritance with, they’re going to give a lot of stuff away to either keep it locked down and say, Hey, you’re giving it all away. But it’s, if you want to get an appraisal, you can probably, you know, put more in there without an appraisal. You know, you’re, you’re locked into a couple thousand dollars, um, of, of what it is and still document it because, you know, they could kick it out, but, um, you, you don’t know that until you’ve run into it. So there’s always interesting things. And sometimes what you think is right is not always right. So if you don’t know the answer to some of those things, you really do need to take the time to go to an expert and make sure that they would have, cause I mean, to be quite honest, I think if he had went to have someone do his taxes, they probably would have never allowed $80,000 worth of thrift store or thrift valued items. I just don’t, I know I wouldn’t have not without an appraisal. Um, no matter how many truckloads or trailer loads there was, it’s just a lot, uh, to do. And it would have been better if he had hired almost an auction company and had a huge garage sale where they would have handled it all and been able to give, um, some sort of evaluations for it. If it was really worth 80 grand at thrift store value, then unfortunately. The few thousand he may have had to pay, uh, to them would have been valuable at the end. But, you know, again, lesson learned understanding it.
[33:15] Dr. Friday: Advice for Estates and Inherited Property (Appraisals)
Dr. Friday
But if you are working with an estate and you think that, Hey, you know what? My, my dad had three houses and they were full of, of junk. You know what people would call junk and moving on, then you need to call an expert out, have them do the appraisals and then do that. It’s the same thing. If you inherit a house, right? A lot of times people are like, well, um, my, I don’t, I don’t know. I say, what, what’s your basis? How much did you inherit it at? And they’re always like, well, I, I don’t know if we sold it for this much, but of course that was a year later. Right. I mean, depending on the market, especially back in like 2021, um, where the value of the house was getting inflated big time, you, you need to have an appraisal, an outside party that either can give you, and it depends on the value of the home, at least like kind. But in many cases, I suggest an actual appraisal on the house and the household things. If it’s something that’s going to be being used to give away or, or, you know, donate it or something like that. Because if you don’t, then you’re going to end up with a whole situation where you could end up losing out on tax deductions because somebody just didn’t want to take that extra step. So if you’re the executor of an estate, if you’re dealing with this kind of thing, that would be the answer you want to go with.
[34:34] Dr. Friday: Final Break Transition and Disclaimer
Dr. Friday
All right. We’re going to get ready to take our last break here. If you’ve been waiting to join the show, now would be a good time to pick up the phone. 615-737-9986. And I totally understand. It is a beautiful Saturday outside. I was out on my tractor myself. It was a good day to be outside playing in the trees and just trying to get things cleaned up and ready for planting. But Hey, if you’ve got a tax question, maybe you’ve inherited something, maybe you’ve got a friend that hasn’t filed taxes and you’re just trying to figure out what’s the next step. Um, you can always call the office on Monday, but you can also join the show again. 615-737-9986. That’s the number here in the studio. And that’s the number that we can use to try to help you give you a rough idea. Again, I just want to say that most of the advice we give on this show is really just outlines, right? It, you need to double check this information with your own personal. Everyone’s taxes are different. Everyone’s situation is different. So don’t just take this at face value. Take this as a, as a outline that you can use to hopefully reduce your taxes or protect yourself in case there is a tax situation. Any way you look at it, I just want you to be knowledgeable. So you have the information you need. So you don’t end up having to go through an audit and then not have the documentation that you need. Again, if you want to join the show, 615-737-9986 number here in the studio, we’re going to take a quick break. When we get back from that break, we’ll get to your phone calls. This is the Dr. Friday show. We’ll be right back.
[36:06] Dr. Friday: Return from Break, Introducing Caller Mike
Dr. Friday
All righty. We are back here live in studio and we’ve been fortunate enough for Mike to hold through that. So let’s hit Mike and see if we can get his question. Hey, Mike, what can I do for you?
[36:21] Caller: Question on Managing Business Income with Early Social Security
Caller
Hey, can you hear me? All right.
Dr. Friday
Yes, sir.
Caller
All right. I am 65. I’m about to retire from teaching. My wife is 67 and we’re just about 67, but she’s reached her full retirement age. We, we have a mowing business together. I’m not sure how to get around making too much for mowing. I’m just not sure. Can I sell her the business and let her earn as much as she wants and she pays me a stipend, a salary or something. So I don’t go over my amount because I’m about to start collecting social security or I can wait. It doesn’t matter.
[37:10] Dr. Friday: Advice on Structuring Business for Social Security Earnings Limit
Dr. Friday
Well, I mean, obviously waiting would make life easier. You can make all the money you want and not have to worry about what you’re talking about as the early social security, um, which is what 67. Is that her, is she at full social security at 67?
Caller
She just received her first check.
Dr. Friday
Okay. And she’s not on early though, right? She’s on her, her actual, um, social security is 60.
Caller
Okay.
Dr. Friday
Um, so yeah, the best answer to that would be is put the business in her name. Um, and then she could 10 99 you for your, you know, hourly pay or whatever she’s going to do. And then that way your pay will be based on only what you’re earning. All the profits can then stay in the business and she’ll pick up on her schedule. See, you would have a separate schedule. See with your earnings. Um, probably no real write-offs because you know, you’re using your own, your family car and everything else. Right. I mean, I’m just saying all that would probably run through the business. It’s a, it’s a mowing business. So, yeah. So, but the mower and all that would be owned by your wife in theory, because she’s the business owner, unless she’s, you know, but either way I would, yes, I would just have it set up where she’s basically paying you for so much per an hour to do the work. Um, I mean, she could theoretically put you on payroll. Um, thinking that’s probably, um, a lot considering we’re only looking at a potentially a year, year and a half before you’ll be on full social security. But, um, you know, since it’s within the family, it’s really not a big deal.
Caller
Yeah. Here’s the thing. We’ve been filing jointly with the business mixed in there.
Dr. Friday
So whose name is the business been on both of yours when you do it? Is the schedule C in both names or just yours?
Caller
Yeah. Our, my, our last name long care.
Dr. Friday
Okay. But on the top of it, do you have, do you know, cause you have a choice. You can either market with husband and wife, both run the business, or usually it’s like the wife or just the husband. So in this case you would have a schedule C for the 1099 and then she would have the full business running under her name solely. You wouldn’t have a joint schedule C, but you’d have independent ones, but still on the combined tax return.
Caller
Doing this. I just want to be legal. I mean, I pay taxes on everything, everything. I am not going to short the government. Uh, they’ll never come back on me. So, uh, but I just want to make sure I’m doing the right thing. I know it’s allowed. It has to be allowed. I want to use the tax laws to the fullest extent. So I thought, man, I just need to call it Dr. Friday. That’s all.
Dr. Friday
Yeah. It is allowed. It’s just a matter of setting it up where she’s tracking, you know, your wages. Just like if you were a subcontractor to anyone else and your job would be is to not work above the 20,000, whatever you can make.
Caller
Yeah. We’ll set it up that way. Yeah. Yeah.
[40:12] Caller: Question on Prorated Earnings Limit in First Year of SS
Caller
But here’s the thing. Now, now I’m going to start collecting in when I turn 65 in June. I’ll just. Okay. I’m retired from teaching. I’ll like turn 65 in June. Is it, um, what I make the rest of the year or is that 20,000 or is it pro rated or what?
[40:31] Dr. Friday: Confirming Prorated Limit and Closing Remarks with Caller
Dr. Friday
It is pro rated. Um, my understanding is it should only be based on the percentage that you have there because obviously prior to that, you were not on the social security. When you sign up, you might want to ask them how they calculate it. I don’t know exactly Mike, but I do know it’s pro rated.
Caller
There you go. All right. All right. I hear you sporadically every week because I, I’m jumping in and out. In fact, I’m about ready to go do a lawn now, but I just thought, man, I need to call her. She probably would know the answer. My accountant hasn’t called me back in a week. So I know, I know it’s a busy time, but I just thought, man, I just need to call her. You said call in right now. So I did. So I just, I just think my foot dropped up and ready to go, but I thought I need to talk to her, but that clear results a lot. So I’ve got about a month to do it. So thank you so much.
Dr. Friday
No problem. Thanks for listening.
Caller
Man, I’m excited. All right. Okay. Bye.
Dr. Friday
Thanks. Let’s hit a Leland and Gallatin real quick. Hey Leland.
[41:26] Caller: Question about Self-Employment Tax Deduction for LLC
Caller
This is my Leland. Hey. Hi. I’m calling about social security tax. Here’s the example. Lady X, she is the sole proprietor of her LLC and she has to pay her social security payroll tax and match the tax. So my question is, I’m sorry.
[41:52] Dr. Friday: Explaining Self-Employment Tax Deduction (Form 1040 Adjustment)
Dr. Friday
Not really, because the first half, the first half of it becomes a deduction on the front of the 1040 and then she pays the match. So she gets credit for half of the social security tax as a deduction.
Caller
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Real quick. Real quick. Uh-huh. When her accountant does the payroll, does the amount of social security that is taxed, is that taken off? Is that sheltered, in other words? Is it like a tax deduction against the LLC itself?
Dr. Friday
Yes. Not really. So basically you have the profit of the LLC, for the example, let’s say she made $20,000. She’s going to get a credit for the 7.65% on the front of the 1040 and then on page two, she’s going to pay on the 15.25% or whatever it works out to mean on the backside. But it really never comes out of the business itself. It’s truly an additional tax.
[43:02] Caller: Confirming Understanding of SE Tax
Caller
Okay. So you actually pay income tax on the payroll tax.
Dr. Friday
Exactly. That’s why I keep saying people should not have to pay tax again when they take out social security. We pay it going in.
Caller
Okay. Thank you, Dr. Friday. You answered my question.
Dr. Friday
Thank you.
Caller
Thanks.
Dr. Friday
Great question.
[43:24] Dr. Friday: Show Wrap-Up and Tax Services Offered
Dr. Friday
All right, guys. We’re getting down to the end of the show. So let’s just recap here really quick. So if you need help doing taxes, obviously it’s what I do all the time. We are now calmed down a little bit. So if you need an appointment, you can give us a call at the office 615-367-0819. That’s the direct line to the office 615-367-0819. We can get you on the calendar, see if we need to get something filed for you, get you caught up, see if we need to do some back years taxes, get a pile of attorneys so we can pull transcripts. There are ways for us to help you. If you don’t have your tax documents, there are ways to help. If your tax documents are wrong, there are forms that can be filed. We’ve had a couple this year where W-2s did not seem to be correct. I had one where she seems to have two W-2s for the same business, but they’re completely different. So one seemed to be like before they switched to ADP and then ADP came into play, but we don’t seem to know how that’s working. They’re both under the same federal ID number. So it’s very confusing sometimes. So we can help you though, try to figure out what’s the best way to get it resolved, at least in the best of the IRS is concerned.
[44:41] Dr. Friday: Accounting and Payroll Services Recommendations
Dr. Friday
Also, if you need to, you know, get your business started, we can also help you with accounting. My brother runs the bookkeeping division on ours. We’re certified QuickBooks advisors. So we can help do accounting as well, help you get started. So that way, you know, what’s easier for us is if you’re using us for taxes, it’s great if you can actually have the accounting set up. So that way we don’t have to worry about going back a whole year and trying to recreate something. We do usually suggest using online QuickBooks nowadays. Desktop is pretty much gone. So it’s easier for people to go that direction. And also use full payroll services. There is one called Gusto. We don’t get paid by doing any referrals. Gusto, of course, ADP, we use all for all of our clients. So we were definitely advocates of ADP. And then, of course, there’s, you know, Intuit if you’re using QuickBooks. But whichever one you decide to do, it is so much easier if you use full service. Okay.
[45:38] Dr. Friday: Importance of Payroll Tax Compliance and Potential Consequences
Dr. Friday
So that just means that they will take the taxes out every week, every month. They’ll make sure the payroll, quarterly, state unemployment, federal unemployment are all filed. Because if you don’t make those payments, then you’re in my office and we’re trying to deal with OICs or trying to pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars sometimes in back payroll because they don’t give you the same kind of credits or penalties or even worse, failure to pay payroll taxes. And they can come directly against the owners of the business or whoever was responsible. I had a situation where a bookkeeper was making the call and therefore they tried to come against her for not making the payroll taxes, but yet paying the rents.
[46:19] Dr. Friday: Final Contact Information and Sign-Off
Dr. Friday
So again, 615-367-0819 is the number in the office. 615-367-0819 or Friday at drfriday.com. That is Friday at drfriday.com. Or you can check us out on the web, drfriday.com. As we’d love to say, call you later.